VERMONT CHILD POVERTY COUNCIL
MINUTES
July 25, 2007
Approved 8/22/07
Members Present: Rep. Ann Pugh, Co-chair; Sen. Doug Racine, Co-chair; Rep. Janet Ancel, Sen. Harold Giard, Sen. Jane Kitchel, Rep. Carolyn Partridge, Donna Bister, WIC Program Director, Vermont Department of Health; Richard Cate, Commissioner, Department of Education; Steve Dale, Commissioner, Department for Children and Families; Carlen Finn, Voices for Vermont’s Children; Jeff Francis, Director, Vermont Superintendents’ Association; Karen Lafayette, Vermont Low Income Advocacy Council; Tom Douse (for Patricia Moulton Powden, Commissioner, Department of Labor); Christopher Curtis (Karen Richards alternate), Poverty Law Project, Vermont Legal Aid
Members Absent: None
Also Present: Legislative staff, Administration staff, the public, and the press
Recording: CD 2007 – 1, 2, 3, 4
Convene, Member and Staff Introductions; Council Organization, Election of Chairs
At 9:35 a.m. Bill Russell, Chief Legislative Counsel, convened the meeting at Woodbury College, Training Space, Montpelier. Members introduced themselves. The staff present introduced themselves, Jennifer Carbee, the new Legislative Counsel for health care and Rachel Levin, Legislative Council. Bill Russell then asked the interested parties in the room to introduce themselves.
Bill Russell asked for a motion to elect the chair or co-chairs, whom the legislation said must be legislative members of the Council. Rep. Partridge made a motion to elect Rep. Ann Pugh and Sen. Doug Racine co-chairs. Sen. Kitchel seconded the motion. There was no further discussion. The motion passed unanimously on a voice vote.
Sen. Racine thanked Bill Russell for convening the meeting. He also thanked Council members for participating, as well as other people attending the meeting and through future public hearings. He said Legislative staff person, Rachel Levin, would be the point of contact for Council members and would coordinate the work; Jennifer Carbee, the new Legislative Council for health care, was asked to introduce herself and said she would assist with research and data collection.
Review Enabling Legislation – Act 68, S.177 Creation of the Vermont Child Poverty Council
Documents distributed
The Council briefly reviewed the enabling legislation. Sen. Racine said there would be five more regular meetings of the Council, most likely held at the State House, the next two in August and September, with the public hearings in late September and October and the last three Council meetings in November and December. He suggested the 14 public hearings in 14 counties were the key to informing Vermonters about the issue of child poverty. He said the Vermont Legislation was based on Connecticut’s and the goal was to have a strategy and plan to reduce child poverty by 50 percent in ten years.
Council Vision and Goals
Council members discussed their vision and goals. Rep. Pugh said putting a human face on poverty through the public hearings would be important in examining what is currently working and what Vermont can do differently to reduce child poverty.
Sen. Racine said Council members’ vision was important and would create the potential to access the information needed to help solve the problem of child poverty. He said prevention does work, and it can be seen through incremental steps in making change.
Sen. Kitchel said the last look at child poverty was in 1999 and that it was critical to assess where Vermont has made investments and measure the outcome. She said to look for the connecting points, such as education, the work place, Next Generation’s investments, factors driving health care costs and the systems of how the money is spent and where strategic investments would get the best return. She said it was important to look at the data and explore how to make school a more successful experience. She also said there needs to be investment in the mother’s education and training that would benefit the whole family.
Carlen Finn said her organization focuses on the most vulnerable and disadvantaged children, and the Council needs to build awareness to build significant solutions.
Rep. Partridge said solutions needed to be created together and addressed in a cost-effective way. She said kids needed to be able to see a brighter future, they needed to be well-nourished, well-educated and have the opportunity to do meaningful work in Vermont. She used Bellows Falls and the high lead levels in children under 6 as an example and said geographic differences throughout the State need to be taken into account.
Commissioner Cate said a document a colleague authored asking, How are the Children, could apply to education. He said there are different outcomes for children eligible for free and reduced-price lunches, and a dramatic difference in test scores and graduation rates. He said in Vermont, poverty is not as obvious as in other cities and states. He said the Council needed to examine how to identify kids in poverty and then how to best meet their needs. He said he is in favor of child care subsidies, which he sees as the only way to break the cycle.
Rep. Pugh said poverty looks different in Chittenden County than other counties and that what works in Chittenden County, may not work in other counties.
Karen Lafayette said it was important to identify programs that work, find ways to include voices from the folks in the field. She said this needed to be incorporated in the manner in which the Council operates. She also said affordable housing was a key issue, that best practices and where investments are needed should be identified.
Christopher Curtis asked how the Council can make it simpler for people to succeed. He said the obstacles to accessing the services that are available is an institutional issue for Vermont Legal Aid clients. He said processes need to be simplified for services already offered.
Tom Douse said the labor market provides both opportunities and challenges, that there was a demand for workers as Baby Boomers age and move on to other things, but there is growth in jobs that require more education and a decline in the number of jobs where less education is needed. He said ways needed to be found to bring people’s work skills to the level employers are seeking.
Donna Bister said public health looks at the whole population with attention to poverty. She said one half of the children born in Vermont are on the WIC program uses the same 185% of the federal poverty level limit as the free and reduced-price lunch program. She said prevention is a long term process.
Jeff Francis said his vision for himself and the Council is to develop a comprehensive understanding of child poverty and all of its consequences for society and Vermont, as well as to examine the systems and policies that can affect the rate and occurrence of child poverty with the goal of recommending adjustments in order to make those systems and policies more effective. He said the education system serves as a nexus between children and families and that a critical part of combating poverty was to have good education and allow people to contribute to the economy.
Rep. Ancel said some of the statistics on child poverty were needed to get the public’s interest. She said that would lead to an understanding of what child poverty means for Vermont and how best to communicate to the public that addressing child poverty has benefits for all Vermonters.
Commissioner Dale said poverty was about looking fundamentally at who we are as a society and that this connects with the Governor’s Affordability Agenda. He said poverty was misunderstood and that it was an imprecise concept.
Presentation: Current State Information and Assistance Provided
Documents distributed
Steve Dale, Commissioner, Department for Children and Families (DCF), introduced his colleagues, Joe Patrissi, Deputy, and Tony Morgan, Director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, as his alternates for the Council. He said Joe, Tony, and Rob McIntyre, Chief, Planning and Evaluation, would assist him with his presentation. He used the two power point presentations above to discuss child poverty trends, definitions, livable wages and data, what social indicators were needed and what data was available. He said that the 2006 ACS data will be out in late August.
Rob McIntyre reviewed the Current Population Survey (CPS) and said data for states is inaccurate due to the small data sample.
Tim Searles, Director, Champlain Valley Office of Economic Opportunity, and Gus Selig, Director, Vermont Housing and Conservation each made comments. Gus Selig mentioned that HUD uses different economic indicators for poverty than AHS and that needed to be taken into account.
Karen Lafayette requested that Commissioner Dale email the presentations to Legislative staff so they could distribute to Council members.
Presentation: Connecticut’s Experience – Achievements and Challenges
Anne Foley, Senior Policy Advisor, Office of Policy Management, Connecticut, testified via telephone. She said Connecticut’s Legislation formed a council to create a 10 year plan to reduce child poverty by 50 percent. She said the Council began meeting in 2004 and first agreed on definitions of child and poverty. On the definition of poverty, there was no consensus so they have used both 100 and 200 percent of the Federal Poverty Level as their definition.
Connecticut then looked at who was poor, why and why children from certain families are likely to be in poverty. They then examined the causes, including the high cost of living, the changing economy, lack of education, lack of assets and family structure. They conducted research and consulted with national and state child poverty experts.
Connecticut held four round table discussions around the state with stakeholders, and one public hearing after they had draft recommendations. They then revised the report with the public hearing input and released the report in January 2005.
Anne Foley said Connecticut has continued to solicit input as they’ve moved forward. The 2005 report contains 67 recommendations in 6 major categories, including enhancing family income and earning potential, assisting in building assets, providing accessible health care, creating safety net programs, focusing on family structure, and further study. She said they have implemented a number of the recommendations over the last two years and have started measuring the process of reducing child poverty. All but two of the recommendations were adopted by consensus; the other two were voted in, as well.
Anne Foley provided insight into the challenges and advice for Vermont. She said that Connecticut had too many recommendations and they were not prioritized based on targeting either population or geography. In addition, as of 2006, the Connecticut Council had an overly broad purpose, because the Legislature merged the Child Poverty Council with a Prevention Council. She said Connecticut had success with consulting experts, they sought input from diverse advocates, head of the Governor’s budget agency was named in Statute as the chair and they are now considering Results Based Accountability.
At 12:30 p.m. the Council recessed and then reconvened at 1:00 p.m.
Public Comment
Sen. Racine invited any members of the public in the room who wanted to comment to do so.
Edna Fairbanks Williams, representing the Vermont Low Income Advocacy Council Board, shared a profile of a family living in poverty. She detailed how, after living expenses, school expenses and food, there was little money to live on and there was little money left for food.
Tim Searles said his community action agency and other community action agencies could assist the Council in hearing Vermonters’ stories as well with the logistics for the public hearings. He said the Vermont Head Start Association was another key organization to involve and that he would provide staff with the contact information.
He also said energy costs have doubled in the last two years, yet this does not get reflected in the Federal Poverty Level statistics. He also said looking to the Scandinavian countries, as well as other European countries, for long term solutions may be helpful. He said, as a society, no one should be given up on and looking at the trends is important.
Presentations from Possible Consultants
Documents distributed
Steve Klein, Chief, Joint Fiscal Office, discussed Legislative budgeting, understanding the process and developing a work plan. He said there are limited resources and the process would be for the co-chairs to approach Legislative Leadership with any proposal. Steve Klein said he had suggested the Council talk to consultants who might have options, create the options and then evaluate the needs of the Council.
Glenn McRae, Ph.D., Director, Public Policy Programs, The Snelling Center for Government, Burlington, discussed his Public Participation proposals and focused on the public engagement process. He said the goal of the process was to focus on the public by informing, consulting, involving, and collaborating.
Paul A. Cillo, President, Public Assets Institute, Montpelier, distributed and focused on the data collection and how to integrate Vermonters’ life stories from the public hearings. He said he would collect data, decide on measures and how to evaluate success. He would suggest the Council make some preliminary recommendations and prioritize them. He would then tie together the academic research and life stories from the hearings, look at what the experience and the research says works, and then assess if it will work for Vermont.
Council Member Connections with other Groups for Resources and Outreach
Documents distributed
Barbara Postman distributed two Voices for Vermont’s Children issue briefs.
Sen. Racine distributed the Center for American Progress’ From Poverty to Prosperity Report, offering it as a possible blueprint for the Council’s work.
Sen. Racine also said Doug Hoffer of Burlington, an interested party, provided a page from the 1998 Vermont Job Gap Study which contains estimates of some of the economic costs of child poverty in Vermont.
The Council set up three sub-groups to work between now and the next meeting:
Public forums: Sen. Racine, Carlen Finn, Karen Lafayette, Tony Morgan (for DCF)
Definitions and Benchmarks: Commissioner Dale, Carlen Finn, Donna Bister
Possible funding: Sen. Racine, Commissioner Dale,
Council members asked staff to obtain and distribute the following reports:
Commissioner’s Dales from this meeting (electronically)
Kids Count 2007, Annie E. Casey Foundation
1999 Report from Child Poverty Commission
A Framework for Understanding Poverty, Ruby K. Payne, Ph.D., suggested by Commissioner Cate
Organizations to ask for presentations and include in public hearing process:
Head Start Association
Housing groups and representatives
Business groups and representatives
Possible future witnesses:
Paul Harrington, Economist, Associate Professor of Education, Northeastern University
Economist to explain future economic trends
Possible research assistance:
Dartmouth College
University of Vermont
Council of State Governments
Council Discussion – Ideas for Next Steps and Future Meeting Dates
The Council discussed possible future agenda items, including reaching an agreement on definitions of child and poverty; benchmarks for measurement, statistics to make the case of what is known about the long range impacts of child poverty; a look at Mark Greenberg’s Report recommendations and the other reports from Commissioner Cate and Commissioner Dale; invitations to organizations to make presentations; inventory of current programs and services; future economic trends; questions for the public; definition of staff needs and resources available to the Council.
The Council agreed to meet Wednesday, August 22 and Thursday, September 13, Room 11, Vermont State House.
At 3:45 p.m. the Council adjourned.
Respectfully submitted,
/s/ Rachel Levin
Legislative Council